I have a gut feeling that when the rubber hits the road Americans will protest in numbers that dwarf The no kings... I don't think that they/we would stand for Trump not leaving office. I'm not even sure what it will look like, but I don't think we will take it lying down if Trump tries to stay in office. But I'm exhausted I can't even watch the news right now it's just heartbreaking and exhausting to see what's happening to this country that I used to have a lot of respect for. The UK is no better, they listened to those idiots like Boris Johnson and went through with Brexit.
I'd like to see more discussions like this one, only maybe more sober, with Europeans, Japanese, Indians, ... etc., etc. to hear what their views of America are. But I must admit I enjoyed the "happy hour" feel to the whole thing, and I was right there with them :-)
I loved this. Thank you so much for making it possible for me to comment. Rick, you paid me one of the greatest compliments when you explained why Trump was reelected. I've am NOT a historian or political expert, but have 'theorized' that Trump's success is because of the entrenched racism in this country. People were appalled that a Black man could actually be president--that he could be reelected was unacceptable and called for revenge and retribution.
Rick, you said it better than I did...but it felt so good to hear you echo the same. Thank you for all you do.
I worked in a mortgage office during the run of the Apprentice and heard co-workers talk about it but never watched it myself. Thought Donald was disgusting way back then. Little did I know how disgusting he would later become. Or how destructive he could be to our country. One man! How could he do all this alone? Lots of help from other sick people.
I am proud to say I never watched one episode of The Apprentice. I lived in NYC during the 80’s & 90’s & knew that Donald J trump shouldn’t be a councilman, no less president
I used to visit NYC a lot because I was earning my masters in Museum Studies at SFSU. And for about a year I was seeing a prominent (strait ahead) saxophone player and his parents owned two brownstones. When I read about how Trump destroyed the Bonwit Teller building to put up his garbage. And once he went after the Central Park 5 and later, Obama, I couldn’t stand to hear him speak.
I never watched reality tv until I recently learned about Brandon McMillian’s “Lucky Dog.” I’ve detested Trump since the 80’s. Trump is literally the antithesis of everything I despise about American culture.
@ :35:15 the question, "What happened to that?" referring to civil protests in the US; how about The NO KINGS rallies/demonstrations, May Day, Hands Off!
What the government understands is if we did the most effective kind of protest—a general strike—that our families would all starve in a week. That’s what they count on to stay in power.
And also the fact that the GOP in DC has all been purchased.
You're right. But it still feels like we're not doing enough and being overwhelmed by this insane Administration. Doesn't it? It does to me.
We have a habit of deluding ourselves about all matters. Examples:
-"MAGA is disintegrating", because there are a few clips of a guy at the 7/11 with orange Dorito seasoning all over his face saying "He pissed me off; why aren't we deporting more?" I saw that exact clip like 3 days ago. MAGA defections have been minimal and absolutely no high level influencers have abandoned him. In fact the worse it gets, the more they triple and quadruple down on their love for him. If you've listened to anyone knowledgeable about cult behavior, there are fairly simple explanations for it. They've found community in the cult; they're ashamed to admit they were wrong. Some but not all are really fucking stupid. Others are elected officials with advanced degrees who know better
More importantly, the powerful right wing media is still behind him 1000%
- "Late deciders are breaking for Kamala". I wrote "no they aren't" at the time. If one claimed to be undecided after his first term, J6, Stormy Daniels and more ... they weren't gonna vote for Kamala.
- "Iowa is going to turn blue". HAHAHAHAHA. Never believed that. He carried Iowa by 9 points.
I could write 15 more.
MAGA has lost very little and his base is mostly still intact. All these farmers who've lost their farms because of the tariffs? They'd vote for him tomorrow without hesitation, because even if he's mildly disappointed them, they've been programmed to hate the left by 45 years of hateful right wing media.
Agree that we're being overrun by the Nazis and we're not doing *enough* yet.
But it's a dangerous leap then to say "we haven't done anything." I am not saying you are-you clearly aren't-but I have seen plenty of people say "All those protests didn't change anything," and IMO that's forehead-smacking ignorant. The protests changed the behavior of the Dem party- not all of it all of the time, and not enough.
The question really has to be not "what are we doing" but what am I doing."
And one thing those of us in blue states should be doing is fiercely pressuring our state government to begin exercising state power--which is *enormous.*
All our blue states really must be ready to jointly declare a state of emergency if the Trump regime tries any sh*t about the midterms- before, during or after.
We already have about 10 Constitutional crises going. Elections and the peaceful transfer of power (scheduled for Jan. 3) are the last line of defense.
I hope the Democratic governors aren't so "independent-minded" or delusional that they refuse to band together and use their very considerable power. The Nazis cannot go after all of them at once.
Here's my take. Leadership is coming from AOC, Sanders, Ossoff, Talarico, Troy Jackson (ME), Abdul el-Sayed, Peggy Flanagan, Hinojosa, and I’m probably missing some. They're all speaking forcefully to what 80% of the country is worried about, and to specifics of their state. They and we are up against 3 antagonists: the Haves who are pouring hundreds of millions into defeating these people, and I’m thinking it will be billions, to buy nonstop wall to wall media ads.
The “news media” is owned and controlled by the Epstein class, and people who don't get most of their info from independent sources will have a distorted view oc the situation.
Third antagonist: the Haves Alot-Want More types who are okay with returning to a status quo sans Trump and fear change. That's the Schumer-Jeffries led wing, the right wing of the Democratic Party. They think they can nibble around the edges of health care, DHS, the security-surveillance state, dark money and Big Money in politics, data centers and AI, the allegedly failing Social Security system, a grossly skewed tax system which delivers all the goodies to the top. And now theh are attacking anyone who has actual ideas about fixing our rapidly disintegrating system. They loathe Mamdani because he's made them look ineffectual. Which they are.
Lest you think this is some far-lefty platform: it's actually right where substantive (and sometimes overwhelming) majorities of the American people are. Bernie and AOC talk mostly about “kitchen table” issues. This isn't Left vs. Right, it's the Have Most vs, Have Too Little to Live.
First we win as much as we can in the midterms, and then we start in on the Leader Debate. Remember, that is usually not decided until late summer early fall before the election. It feels worse because the stakes are existential.
Agree with one minor tweak. Yes, AOC and the others are speaking to 80% of the country about kitchen table issues. But that doesn't mean 80% get it or even agree. I'd even bet a decent % of Dem voters and elected Dems don't agree. Chuck and Hakeem enter the chat.
AOC and liberalism has been branded as evil by decades of right wing media lies and 1/8th truths. She and Bernie et al could announce a workable plan for world peace, free healthcare, lower mortgage rates and free donuts for all and and a big % would call them kooks, idiots, socialists, Trotsky lovers.
Disagree? How about people who had ACA plans screaming for Trump to kill ACA? How about Blacks, Hispanics and Muslims for Trump?
Never underestimate the terribleness of tribal politics
We should be filling the streets every single day. An occasional mass protest that gets brief coverage in one news cycle is not going to have any effect. Americans seem so complacent. And so many people are saying, vote! and of course we'll vote if we have the opportunity, but we'll be lucky if we even have an election, let alone a fair one. We are in crisis and everyone is going about their daily routines like the house is not on fire. I honestly do feel powerless. And you're right about the MAGA cult and the right wing media brainwashing. There are no easy solutions.
I feel for your sense of powerlessness. And that also tells me you are not yet plugged into the sources of actionable information. Action is The Best Antidote to anxiety depression, hopelessness. And the good news is, there's a lot of action by good groups that need your help one way or another.
Indivisible.org's Thursday zoom 3-4 pm EST "What's the Plan" is great--largely about election protection training and action. Even just listening in on the zoom, or the podcast/recorded version the next day will buck you up, because you get to hear about good things being done around the country by ordinary citizens.
The Existentialist Republic (here on Ss) focuses on "federalism"-- the fact that Dems have overlooked for decades. States have enormous sovereign power, which needz to be resurrected to defend against a tyrannical DC government. If you are fortunate to live in a blue state, state legislators are much much easier to reach. Existentialist Republic has practical things each of us can do, although it's always better to gather even a small group of like-minded people. 3 of us sat down and within 3 weeks had connected with 200 people who bombarded each of 39 state government & legislators with letters.
If in-person involvement isn't quite your thing now,
ACLU, NAACP, Black Votes Matter, All Roads Lead to the South, National Organization of Women, League of Women Voters, among probably many others, ALL would love some financial support as they are all doing massive work to defend our democracy. Squeeze out as much as you can. Even if it's $5 a month, they'll put it to good use and You Will Feel Better! I hope something in here catches on for you. None of us can do all that needs to be done. But ALL of us can do something to help!
No. Look to Albania as a cautionary tale! My source for this is an ethnic-Albanian refugee who follows the news from back home.
That deal is still on, it's just not active. No leader has emerged. The Albanians gather in the streets.
The government PNGs any non-Albanians. The government has arrested anyone showing potential to lead the opposition.
When all this started, my friend told me Albania has a long history of murderous political violence. He said recently that the most surprising thing is that the protestors have not turned violent.
I’ll have to check! With this gang, though, that would mean some kind of formal, legal end. You read that Albanian villagers have some sort of legal action against the man who sold the property to the Kushners? He’s a polymath of criminality who forged Ottoman-era documents and stole the land. Remember the 1776 slush fund…. These vampires may look like they're safely in the coffin, but nothing is safe till you’ve driven a stake through their…well, where the heart would be in a normal person.
Seems kind of cynical but we've been fooled so many times it's hard to be optimistic. Perhaps cautious optimism is the way to go with the political reality now days. It lets us cope and hope without getting our hearts ripped out when things don't work out in our favor.
That's the same question I've had. It shows there's millions and millions of people who want to do something. Their actions in Minneapolis, Chicago and LA show they will rally. The organization that could have the most impact in getting them acting especially in an election year didn't want to engage with them. Democratic leadership doesn't know what it wants to do it might even have been opposed to some of the ideas in the no kings protests so they didn't use it to build power.
The people doing it don't have institutional support or money backing them. I think it's a mistake but the democratic leadership really don't think they are real Americans. They think the only real and valid Americans are republicans. The democratic leadership don't have faith in their own values so they can't see millions of people marching in the streets for America and be enthusiastic about joining let alone leading. Thanks for reading my long comment Doc Blasé
How can we see the 2nd half of that program in UK?
I have a gut feeling that when the rubber hits the road Americans will protest in numbers that dwarf The no kings... I don't think that they/we would stand for Trump not leaving office. I'm not even sure what it will look like, but I don't think we will take it lying down if Trump tries to stay in office. But I'm exhausted I can't even watch the news right now it's just heartbreaking and exhausting to see what's happening to this country that I used to have a lot of respect for. The UK is no better, they listened to those idiots like Boris Johnson and went through with Brexit.
We had protests in the US against ice or and the 'no kings' were huge with millions protesting.
Thanks Rick: Great podcast. Love the reality check from the UK. I totally agree; Trump's smear of John McCain was abhorrent.
I'd like to see more discussions like this one, only maybe more sober, with Europeans, Japanese, Indians, ... etc., etc. to hear what their views of America are. But I must admit I enjoyed the "happy hour" feel to the whole thing, and I was right there with them :-)
I loved this. Thank you so much for making it possible for me to comment. Rick, you paid me one of the greatest compliments when you explained why Trump was reelected. I've am NOT a historian or political expert, but have 'theorized' that Trump's success is because of the entrenched racism in this country. People were appalled that a Black man could actually be president--that he could be reelected was unacceptable and called for revenge and retribution.
Rick, you said it better than I did...but it felt so good to hear you echo the same. Thank you for all you do.
I worked in a mortgage office during the run of the Apprentice and heard co-workers talk about it but never watched it myself. Thought Donald was disgusting way back then. Little did I know how disgusting he would later become. Or how destructive he could be to our country. One man! How could he do all this alone? Lots of help from other sick people.
I am proud to say I never watched one episode of The Apprentice. I lived in NYC during the 80’s & 90’s & knew that Donald J trump shouldn’t be a councilman, no less president
Me either. I read about all his failures in the eighties and nineties.
I used to visit NYC a lot because I was earning my masters in Museum Studies at SFSU. And for about a year I was seeing a prominent (strait ahead) saxophone player and his parents owned two brownstones. When I read about how Trump destroyed the Bonwit Teller building to put up his garbage. And once he went after the Central Park 5 and later, Obama, I couldn’t stand to hear him speak.
I never watched reality tv until I recently learned about Brandon McMillian’s “Lucky Dog.” I’ve detested Trump since the 80’s. Trump is literally the antithesis of everything I despise about American culture.
I’ve never seen it. The ads alone were enough to put me off.
I have to switch my view to YouTube so I may expand the view
We. Need thousands upon thousands to show up in Washington weekly to gain impact.
I love this conversation! I wish I’d been there. Good on all of you.
@ :35:15 the question, "What happened to that?" referring to civil protests in the US; how about The NO KINGS rallies/demonstrations, May Day, Hands Off!
Several million people turned out for each.
Was our news "coverage" that bad?
What the government understands is if we did the most effective kind of protest—a general strike—that our families would all starve in a week. That’s what they count on to stay in power.
And also the fact that the GOP in DC has all been purchased.
You're right. But it still feels like we're not doing enough and being overwhelmed by this insane Administration. Doesn't it? It does to me.
We have a habit of deluding ourselves about all matters. Examples:
-"MAGA is disintegrating", because there are a few clips of a guy at the 7/11 with orange Dorito seasoning all over his face saying "He pissed me off; why aren't we deporting more?" I saw that exact clip like 3 days ago. MAGA defections have been minimal and absolutely no high level influencers have abandoned him. In fact the worse it gets, the more they triple and quadruple down on their love for him. If you've listened to anyone knowledgeable about cult behavior, there are fairly simple explanations for it. They've found community in the cult; they're ashamed to admit they were wrong. Some but not all are really fucking stupid. Others are elected officials with advanced degrees who know better
More importantly, the powerful right wing media is still behind him 1000%
- "Late deciders are breaking for Kamala". I wrote "no they aren't" at the time. If one claimed to be undecided after his first term, J6, Stormy Daniels and more ... they weren't gonna vote for Kamala.
- "Iowa is going to turn blue". HAHAHAHAHA. Never believed that. He carried Iowa by 9 points.
I could write 15 more.
MAGA has lost very little and his base is mostly still intact. All these farmers who've lost their farms because of the tariffs? They'd vote for him tomorrow without hesitation, because even if he's mildly disappointed them, they've been programmed to hate the left by 45 years of hateful right wing media.
We are in deep deep trouble
Agree that we're being overrun by the Nazis and we're not doing *enough* yet.
But it's a dangerous leap then to say "we haven't done anything." I am not saying you are-you clearly aren't-but I have seen plenty of people say "All those protests didn't change anything," and IMO that's forehead-smacking ignorant. The protests changed the behavior of the Dem party- not all of it all of the time, and not enough.
The question really has to be not "what are we doing" but what am I doing."
And one thing those of us in blue states should be doing is fiercely pressuring our state government to begin exercising state power--which is *enormous.*
All our blue states really must be ready to jointly declare a state of emergency if the Trump regime tries any sh*t about the midterms- before, during or after.
We already have about 10 Constitutional crises going. Elections and the peaceful transfer of power (scheduled for Jan. 3) are the last line of defense.
I hope the Democratic governors aren't so "independent-minded" or delusional that they refuse to band together and use their very considerable power. The Nazis cannot go after all of them at once.
Where is the leadership coming from? Not our two senior leaders.
Our voters? Hahaha
Just wanna remind everyone in ‘16 and again in ‘24, >10M Dems didn’t vote. In fact in ‘16, a whole lotta Dems voted for him. Because her emails.
We are so lost; so ineffective.
Here's my take. Leadership is coming from AOC, Sanders, Ossoff, Talarico, Troy Jackson (ME), Abdul el-Sayed, Peggy Flanagan, Hinojosa, and I’m probably missing some. They're all speaking forcefully to what 80% of the country is worried about, and to specifics of their state. They and we are up against 3 antagonists: the Haves who are pouring hundreds of millions into defeating these people, and I’m thinking it will be billions, to buy nonstop wall to wall media ads.
The “news media” is owned and controlled by the Epstein class, and people who don't get most of their info from independent sources will have a distorted view oc the situation.
Third antagonist: the Haves Alot-Want More types who are okay with returning to a status quo sans Trump and fear change. That's the Schumer-Jeffries led wing, the right wing of the Democratic Party. They think they can nibble around the edges of health care, DHS, the security-surveillance state, dark money and Big Money in politics, data centers and AI, the allegedly failing Social Security system, a grossly skewed tax system which delivers all the goodies to the top. And now theh are attacking anyone who has actual ideas about fixing our rapidly disintegrating system. They loathe Mamdani because he's made them look ineffectual. Which they are.
Lest you think this is some far-lefty platform: it's actually right where substantive (and sometimes overwhelming) majorities of the American people are. Bernie and AOC talk mostly about “kitchen table” issues. This isn't Left vs. Right, it's the Have Most vs, Have Too Little to Live.
First we win as much as we can in the midterms, and then we start in on the Leader Debate. Remember, that is usually not decided until late summer early fall before the election. It feels worse because the stakes are existential.
Agree with one minor tweak. Yes, AOC and the others are speaking to 80% of the country about kitchen table issues. But that doesn't mean 80% get it or even agree. I'd even bet a decent % of Dem voters and elected Dems don't agree. Chuck and Hakeem enter the chat.
AOC and liberalism has been branded as evil by decades of right wing media lies and 1/8th truths. She and Bernie et al could announce a workable plan for world peace, free healthcare, lower mortgage rates and free donuts for all and and a big % would call them kooks, idiots, socialists, Trotsky lovers.
Disagree? How about people who had ACA plans screaming for Trump to kill ACA? How about Blacks, Hispanics and Muslims for Trump?
Never underestimate the terribleness of tribal politics
We should be filling the streets every single day. An occasional mass protest that gets brief coverage in one news cycle is not going to have any effect. Americans seem so complacent. And so many people are saying, vote! and of course we'll vote if we have the opportunity, but we'll be lucky if we even have an election, let alone a fair one. We are in crisis and everyone is going about their daily routines like the house is not on fire. I honestly do feel powerless. And you're right about the MAGA cult and the right wing media brainwashing. There are no easy solutions.
I feel for your sense of powerlessness. And that also tells me you are not yet plugged into the sources of actionable information. Action is The Best Antidote to anxiety depression, hopelessness. And the good news is, there's a lot of action by good groups that need your help one way or another.
Indivisible.org's Thursday zoom 3-4 pm EST "What's the Plan" is great--largely about election protection training and action. Even just listening in on the zoom, or the podcast/recorded version the next day will buck you up, because you get to hear about good things being done around the country by ordinary citizens.
The Existentialist Republic (here on Ss) focuses on "federalism"-- the fact that Dems have overlooked for decades. States have enormous sovereign power, which needz to be resurrected to defend against a tyrannical DC government. If you are fortunate to live in a blue state, state legislators are much much easier to reach. Existentialist Republic has practical things each of us can do, although it's always better to gather even a small group of like-minded people. 3 of us sat down and within 3 weeks had connected with 200 people who bombarded each of 39 state government & legislators with letters.
If in-person involvement isn't quite your thing now,
ACLU, NAACP, Black Votes Matter, All Roads Lead to the South, National Organization of Women, League of Women Voters, among probably many others, ALL would love some financial support as they are all doing massive work to defend our democracy. Squeeze out as much as you can. Even if it's $5 a month, they'll put it to good use and You Will Feel Better! I hope something in here catches on for you. None of us can do all that needs to be done. But ALL of us can do something to help!
Thanks for the inspiration and the suggestions. I will follow your advice.
How about we take our cue from Albania.
Every. Fucking. Day. they were out there until Vanky and Kushner packed up
Albania. We now looking to Albania for direction
No. Look to Albania as a cautionary tale! My source for this is an ethnic-Albanian refugee who follows the news from back home.
That deal is still on, it's just not active. No leader has emerged. The Albanians gather in the streets.
The government PNGs any non-Albanians. The government has arrested anyone showing potential to lead the opposition.
When all this started, my friend told me Albania has a long history of murderous political violence. He said recently that the most surprising thing is that the protestors have not turned violent.
Albania is a heroic story, and an "urban legend."
Pretty sure I read the other day that the Kushners have given up. No?
I’ll have to check! With this gang, though, that would mean some kind of formal, legal end. You read that Albanian villagers have some sort of legal action against the man who sold the property to the Kushners? He’s a polymath of criminality who forged Ottoman-era documents and stole the land. Remember the 1776 slush fund…. These vampires may look like they're safely in the coffin, but nothing is safe till you’ve driven a stake through their…well, where the heart would be in a normal person.
Seems kind of cynical but we've been fooled so many times it's hard to be optimistic. Perhaps cautious optimism is the way to go with the political reality now days. It lets us cope and hope without getting our hearts ripped out when things don't work out in our favor.
Cynical? Yes.
But seriously, is there anything I wrote, fact or opinion, that’s inaccurate or that you disagree with?
8 million…not several…but MASSIVE
That's the same question I've had. It shows there's millions and millions of people who want to do something. Their actions in Minneapolis, Chicago and LA show they will rally. The organization that could have the most impact in getting them acting especially in an election year didn't want to engage with them. Democratic leadership doesn't know what it wants to do it might even have been opposed to some of the ideas in the no kings protests so they didn't use it to build power.
The people doing it don't have institutional support or money backing them. I think it's a mistake but the democratic leadership really don't think they are real Americans. They think the only real and valid Americans are republicans. The democratic leadership don't have faith in their own values so they can't see millions of people marching in the streets for America and be enthusiastic about joining let alone leading. Thanks for reading my long comment Doc Blasé